Can only christians be saved?

Does the Bible teach that only christians can be “saved”?

Three doctrinal views

Christians have held three main views on this question:

Exclusivism

On this view, only those who specifically put their faith in Jesus and ask him for forgiveness can be saved. There are certainly Bible passages that appear to indicate this, including Romans 3:21-25, 1 Peter 1:18-21, Acts 4:12 (“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved”), and perhaps the strongest, from Jesus himself in John 14:6:

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

However there are difficulties with this view.

  • Taken strictly, none of the Jews before Jesus, even the heroes of the faith, could be saved, because none of them had believed in Jesus.
  • It appears to be unjust that those who have never heard of Jesus, even newborn babies, would be condemned without opportunity to believe. Even if we don’t believe in a hell of eternal punishment (see Hell – what does the Bible say?), this seems to be way too harsh for a loving God.

Universalism

Universalism teaches that because God is love and God is sovereign, in the end everyone will be saved. And there are passages that appear to support this view, perhaps most notably 1 Corinthians 15:22:

“For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive”

However there are many other passages that teach differently (such as those referenced above under “Exclusivism”) and Jesus’ warnings about punishment in the age to come (e.g. Matthew 25:41,46), and it seems that universalism must remain a hopeful but unlikely possibility.

Inclusivism

Inclusivism teaches that while people can only be saved through Jesus, it will not only be christian believers who will be saved. Support from this view comes from several sources:

1. Many apparently exclusivist passages can be seen as supporting this view. Check out John 14:6, Acts 4:12, Romans 3:21-25, 1 Peter 1:18-21 and many others, and you’ll find that they say clearly that Jesus is the only means of salvation, and that faith in him leads to salvation, but they don’t say that others cannot be saved through him too, and they allow for the possibility that God’s grace in Jesus extends to more people than just those who specifically identify as christians. The exclusivist case isn’t nearly as strong as it first appears.

2. Quite a few passages suggest that God’s mercy is wider than we may sometimes think.

  • Romans 2:14-16: “(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”
  • Acts 17:24-27: “God …. gives everyone life and breath and everything else. From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth …. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him”
  • Acts 10:34-35: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.”
  • 2 Chronicles 16:9: “For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. “
  • Other passages worth mentioning here are Matthew 25:34-40, John 1:9, Psalm 103:10-14, Isaiah 66:2 and Micah 6:8.

3. It makes sense of the fact that at least some people (the Old Testament Jews) were saved without knowing about Jesus. And it seems more just, for “Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25).

From all this we learn that although none of us can live worthy enough to earn God’s favour, that favour can come to us via our faith (Romans 3:21-25, Ephesians 2:8-9), or our heart attitude (Acts 10:34-35, Romans 10:13, 2 Chronicles 16:9) or our actions (Matthew 25:34-40, Acts 10:34-35, Micah 6:8).

What shall we conclude?

I believe the inclusivist view is the correct one. It is most in accordance with scripture (once we see that most apparently exclusivist passages also fit an inclusivist view), it seems more just and loving, and it was the view of CS Lewis and is the view of Dallas Willard (to name just two influential thinkers and writers).

So I believe we will live in eternity with many people who did not have the opportunity to believe in Jesus, but whose hearts were open to God. They will be there by the grace of God and because Jesus died for them too, just as we will. They responded to the light they were given, and that is what God was seeking. This is a wonderful doctrine!

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21 thoughts on “Can only christians be saved?

  1. Lisa says:

    I am having a hard time understanding the exact difference between the universalist and the inclusivist . Is it that universalists say no people will be left unsaved but according to inclusivists the people with hard hearts toward God will be left unsaved?
    Reading some universalist literature it seems to me they believe that everyone’s heart will eventually change toward God as He corrects and purifies them. If I understand correctly, they believe in a second chance to accept Christ after physical death.
    Both of these views are unfamiliar to me and I am just now learning about them. Thank you for your time.

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  2. unkleE says:

    Hi Lisa,

    Thanks for visiting and commenting. I’m sorry to delay replying, but I have been away from home for a few days.

    I think your definition is pretty right. Inclusivists think people who respond to the light they are given will be “saved”, but others will not, whereas universalists think God will “save” everyone in the end. As you also say, universalists often believe in an after death opportunity for God to melt people’s hearts with his love.

    I hope you find a clear answer to the things you are thinking about.

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  3. Rich says:

    Maybe God will save those people that live up to the light they have BUT we are commanded to live our lives as exclusivists…all of the last words of Jesus were commands to take the gospel to the unreached. Both Peter in Acts 10:42 and Paul in Acts 13:47 understood that we are under orders to do foreign missions. It was not an option to be considered, but a command to be obeyed.

    How is it that two billion professed followers of Jesus are alive today and still the world has not been reached? Pure unadulterated disobedience and indifference to those who have never heard.

    The author of this post says “…They responded to the light they were given, and that is what God was seeking. This is a wonderful doctrine!” This is NOT wonderful for those who could have light if Christians would take missions seriously. Over 120,000 people die everyday, a majority of whom never had a Bible and never saw a Christian and could not because nobody ever went to them. They enter eternity without Christ.

    references:
    joshuaproject.net
    web page “Missions slogans and notables quotes from missionaries”

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  4. westofthebluemountains says:

    Hello Unklee,

    First let me say that I believe that God exists. The creation of the Universe with its physical laws and finely tuned values and parameters would be unlikely to have come about by accident so this indicates to me that there is an entity existing outside time and space that designed the laws of physics and supplied the material for those laws to act on.

    The nature of God is another matter. Now that we have entered the computer age and can run our own computer simulations and design our own simple universes with laws and players and their characteristics we can see the similarity of those virtual realities to the operation of the universe. There are laws, but there is also randomness, stars form under the laws, but they are not the same, similarly with planets and people, we have our own characteristics.

    The diversity of life on this planet indicates to me the operation of random factors within an encompassing law of Evolution.

    I would like to hear your view on this. Do you believe that there is such a thing as randomness or do you think that everything that happens in the universe was designed to happen ? If randomness exists then it appears to indicate that events are not under God’s control. He can load the dice by designing rules that favour life but the actual outcomes depend on many factors.

    This is why I lean to the idea that God is similar to a computer simulation designer, ie once his “program” is started he does not interfere but merely observes the results of his creation. I think that this theory provides a rational explanation for why the Universe is the way it is without the complication of any religious beliefs.

    Once we get into the idea of a Biblical God, things start to go a bit astray for me.

    From the Bible it appears that it is important to God that people believe in him. If so, surely he can prove that he exists by a personal appearance like he was supposed to have done to Moses and various people throughout history. The performance of any one of a number of miracles that cannot be explained by physical laws would surely serve that purpose ?

    If mere belief in God’s existence is what is required, then he has achieved his mission as far as I’m concerned by simple observation of the wonders of Nature supplied by the existence of the Universe and the diversity of life.

    So, I tend to the belief that the Biblical God was invented by man in order to establish a system of law and order and to improve the morale of the Jews who were a wandering tribe at the time and persecuted by many. The belief that an all powerful entity was on their side would surely give them strength and resolve to overcome their enemies. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to have worked out that way.

    One of the opposition Gods and their religion (Islam) has pervaded the world and is now a more powerful entity than Judaism, as is another alternative, Christianity.

    So we now have three opposing religions all of who think that their God is the only God and all the others are heathens. If God truly was on the side of one of those tribes then the whole world would be Jewish, Christian, or Moslem.

    Religion would seem to be a very divisive concept !

    As for Jesus, I believe that he existed and I generally have no problem with what he said, or is purported to have said as the New Testament was written at least 50 years after his death by people who did not know him. It’s very likely that a lot of distortion and fabrication arose during this time so we don’t really know the truth about his life.

    Again, if God’s purpose was to get people to believe in him by sending Jesus to earth then it appears that this act has not entirely worked, as although Christianity is a large religion it cannot be said to be dominant today, and one would think that there would be more effective ways to do this as I mentioned above.

    I’m afraid I have to say that to me, the power of religion revolves around fear, fear of death and eternal damnation. I do however acknowledge that Christianity has helped to civilise the Western world and has been the basis for the development of our justice system and has had a positive impact on the lives of many people.

    I have spent a lot of time on other forums defending Christians against fairly vicious attacks by atheists who want to portray Christianity as the source of all evil and certainly passages of the Old Testament could be read that way.

    A lot of these attacks seem to come from people who are gay or have a close connection with someone who is. I have to say that I sympathise with them to some extent in that all religions treat gays as pariahs and preach that they will only be saved if they give up something that comes naturally to them, however the Bible and Koran explicitly say that homosexuality is a sin and obviously this cannot be changed.

    No doubt Christianity has had a lot of bad press over the centuries, the Crusades, the Inquistion, supression of science etc but it seems to be modernising itself. One can only hope that other religions do also.

    I have enjoyed reading your site. I appreciate your presentation of evidence both for and against your views, and I wish you all the best.

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  5. unkleE says:

    Hi, thanks for that thoughtful comment, and for your kind remarks at the end. I agree with a number of things you say, but of course disagree on others. C’est la vie! I will try to focus on a few matters that seem to be central to what you say.

    I agree with you that the idea of a distant God who set things up and now lets it run its course is an attractive one that explains a lot of the evidence. If I wasn’t a christian, I think that is what I would believe.

    But I am a christian because I think that the historical evidence for the life of Jesus is good enough for me to believe he was divine, and this is supported by the present-day evidence of people experiencing God through healing, visions, guidance and help in times of trouble. (I have written these things up on my other website – yes, I am a glutton for punishment! – see for example Jesus – image of God? and Does God intervene on earth these days?.)

    BTW, I think the historical basis for the gospels is better than you state, though I admit there are difficulties too. But I think the evidence is that we can know quite sufficient about Jesus to be confident of who he was and his message.

    I would like to hear your view on this. Do you believe that there is such a thing as randomness or do you think that everything that happens in the universe was designed to happen ?”

    I’m not sure if anything is truly random – randomness may just be our lack of enough knowledge – but it appears there may be genuine randomness in quantum physics. But I don’t think everything is predetermined either. I think humans have genuine choice, and this is neither random or pre-determined. So I think God has set up the universe so everything is not controlled by him.

    “From the Bible it appears that it is important to God that people believe in him. If so, surely he can prove that he exists by a personal appearance like he was supposed to have done to Moses and various people throughout history. The performance of any one of a number of miracles that cannot be explained by physical laws would surely serve that purpose ?

    If mere belief in God’s existence is what is required, then he has achieved his mission”

    I don’t think that is what God is looking for, so I don’t think a spectacular miracle is a useful strategy. (And I don’t think it would change many people’s minds!)

    Just as a good parent creates a child not for what the parent can get out of it, but for the love they can give and to see the child grow up to be an independent person, so I think God is wanting to create autonomous beings that have many of his characteristics – rationality, ethical sense, ability to love, etc – and then enter into voluntary relationships with us all, for our benefit. So he’s not (I believe) just setting some test of belief, or of behaviour, but he’s looking for people to choose to respond to him because we want that relationship.

    I agree with you that if a religion is from God, you’d expect it to be successful. The question is, how successful is our performance measure? Christianity is still the largest world religion, and I think giving humans freedom inevitably means there’ll be differences in belief. But I don’t think only christians have any hope or any truth, nor do I believe in everlasting punishment. So I think that God will end up with quite a few people to love!

    Thanks again for your input and feedback. I’m happy to discuss further if you want. Best wishes to you too!

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  6. westofthebluemountains says:

    Hello again Unklee and thank you for your response.

    I’m prepared to alter my view of God and although I’m not going as far as believing the Biblical description, I thought your parental analogy was very apt.

    How do you explain the vengeful God of the Old Testament ? Is the OT an embarrassment to Christians ?

    I believe that Jesus said that the OT was valid, but a lot of what God did in the OT doesn’t sit well with the loving father figure that the Christian church portrays him as.

    I read on your site that you don’t believe that humans have an immortal soul. I do.

    My evidence is pretty thin though. It concerns my late mother who told me one morning that she saw a neighbor of ours in our house the previous night. Our neighbor was in hospital with a terminal condition and after my mother told me the story we found out that the neighbor had passed away. Not much to go on, but my mother was not in the habit of making up things like that.

    This has led me to a belief in reincarnation. I see life on earth as a learning experience, but this learning is no good to us if we ultimately die and can’t use it.

    Of course you could say that our life experience gets passed down to our descendants and thereby benefits the human race, but that’s not very satisfying for an individual ! It seems to me also that the Bible is concerned more about individual salvation than the collective good. Would you agree ?

    Being involved with computers I can see a parallel between souls and software.

    Software can be contained within hardware (a human body) and can be transferred to other pieces of hardware. A human soul could be analogous to an Object Oriented Programming Language object (excuse me if this is a bit technical), which contains data (memory) and instructions (programming) for operating on that data. My old computer died recently but fortunately I had the software backed up and now it’s running even better on my new body (sorry, computer).

    Of course, what material the soul is made out of and how it retains it’s data is a matter of conjecture, and I don’t have an answer to that.

    I know this is contrary to Bible teaching, but it seems to me to be an otherwise rational idea.

    On another matter, are you active on any other forums ? I contribute quite regularly to this one :-

    http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5

    The main site is for discussion of the stock market but the General Chat section contains a lot of diverse threads which may be of interest to you including

    Religion is Crazy – (someone else’s opinion) and
    Religion, science, sceptism, Philosophy and things metaphysical – (fertile ground for a wide ranging discussion).

    I’m called a different name there, I’ll leave to work out what, it’s not too hard !

    You will be welcome as I seem to be outnumbered at the moment.

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  7. unkleE says:

    Hi, thanks for your comments – this is just a quick initial reply.

    1. I’m sorry, you seem to be on moderation all the time, when the setting is supposed to be that people who’ve commented before can comment without moderation. I’ll try to sort out what’s going on.

    2. I’m going on a week’s holiday this morning with only occasional internet, so I may take a day or two to get back to you. Catch you soon.

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  8. unkleE says:

    Hi, thanks again for some interesting ideas, and for courteous discussion of differences.

    “How do you explain the vengeful God of the Old Testament ? Is the OT an embarrassment to Christians ?”

    Yes, that does present difficulties, but I think there are answers too.

    1. People sometimes overstate the vengeful side of things. There are more statements about yahweh being loving than being vengeful, so e need to keep things in perspective. But any vengeful at all is a difficulty.

    2. As a christian, I believe Jesus is the best revelation of God’s character, and if I get a different impression from the OT, then that different impression is wrong. And I note that Jesus often corrected or improved the first century Jewish understanding of god, and, by implication, the OT portrayal.

    I have been much influenced by the historical and literary scholar CS Lewis, and he said that the OT started in legend and gradually became more historical. There was also a development in understanding, starting with the same religious ideas as in other ancient near eastern cultures, and gradually refined. (Read some quotes here.)

    I accept this perspective, although many christians take a different view. But it explains the different view of Yahweh, because it was a belief in transition.

    “This has led me to a belief in reincarnation. I see life on earth as a learning experience, but this learning is no good to us if we ultimately die and can’t use it.”

    I have never been able to see any reason to believe in reincarnation. I don’t see how we can learn, or even say we are the same person, if we cannot remember our past life. And I cannot see how it fits with a fast growing global population – we have to have new lives beginning to make up the numbers, so I can’t see why there are anything other than all new lives.

    “Being involved with computers I can see a parallel between souls and software.”

    I like this analogy, and I accept it, But I still don’t believe we have souls separate from our bodies, and i don’t believe anything about us is immortal. I see it as the software is analogous to our real selves, which cannot exist separate from the hardware, except God resurrects us.

    “On another matter, are you active on any other forums ? I contribute quite regularly to this one”

    I am a member of many forums – several computer ones so I can get occasional advice on website coding, several atheist ones that I used to discuss on until I decided it was pretty counter productive, several christians ones, only one of which I continue on, and a few other odd ones. But I probably spend more time on blogs than on forums these days. I think forums are generally frequented by hard core people of varying viewpoints, and after a while the discussion gets repetitive and not very productive. How have you found it?

    I couldn’t tell at first glance which was you, but I have limited access while I’m away.

    Hope I covered everything. I’m sitting in a park in Forster, in front of the tourist info where there’s free wifi. Great weather, good times, but not the best for internet discussion. Catch you again soon!

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  9. westofthebluemountains says:

    Thank you again for your reply Unklee.

    Forster used to be a haunt for our family but I haven’t been there for a while. Must try and get back and see how it’s changed.

    I think I will let you enjoy your holiday before I respond in any more detail, but as to your comment about forums, yes I certainly feel I’m going around in circles with one particular person and I feel like giving it a break for a while.

    Quite a few points of interest have been raised along the way though, development of morality, emotions, evolution, cosmology etc so it has been quite interesting.

    Have you read any of Paul Davies books ? He is one of the most readable science/cosmology writers I have encountered.

    Until we talk again thank you for your thoughts.

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  10. westofthebluemountains says:

    Hello again Unklee,

    It seems we have fairly disparate views, so I may make a few final comments and leave it at that.

    I see our souls as our spiritual selves, containing our ethics and morals, our capacity to love, our other emotions ie our inbuilt ‘rules’ for dealing with other humans and other species. It is our “operating system” that operates on data provided by the material world.

    There is therefore, no need to remember anything of our past lives, our souls contain the essence of what we are at any particular time.

    If and when we get reincarnated, our operating system (let’s hope it’s not a Windows 10 !) is loaded into a clean machine, and we start off with a fresh slate ( forgiveness ? ), living our lives according to the data provided by those times.

    So why should you as a Christian give any credence to this theory ?

    Because, as you pointed out on this page, if Jesus is the only path to God, then all those who lived before him, and all those who through no fault of their own never heard of Jesus will remain permanently dead and will never be saved.

    Is this what a loving parental God would want for any of his children ?

    Their only hope seems to become aware of him in later lives.

    I think that the Bible was written both in and for the times that the writers operated in. Trying to explain complex ideas beyond the educational levels at the time would have been counter productive. The writers had to keep it simple, but as mankind’s education has progressed we can pick out the logical holes and inconsistencies in the ancient texts and we need an update and clarification.

    I’m happy to discuss further if you wish, if you don’t then I wish you all the best.

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  11. westofthebluemountains says:

    I may also add that if life has arisen on other planets (also part of God’s creation), they could never be saved either.

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  12. westofthebluemountains says:

    Hello again,

    I know I said I would go away but I have more questions if you would be so kind.

    How do you interpret John 14:2 (KJB)

    “In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you”

    What are the mansions ? Other planets , other dimensions, other lives ? What does the church say ?

    Also, what is the church’s view on intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe ? If this was found how would it affect Biblical teachings ?

    Thank you, I hope I’m not too much trouble.

    Like

  13. unkleE says:

    Hi, you are certainly not being any trouble. I enjoy such discussions as long as they are courteous, which, thank you, this is.

    Give me a day or two to reply as I’m returning home from holidays tomorrow. Thanks.

    Like

  14. unkleE says:

    Hello again, I’ve returned from a very relaxing holiday, and am happy to have a go at answering your questions – thanks for them.

    “Because, as you pointed out on this page, if Jesus is the only path to God, then all those who lived before him, and all those who through no fault of their own never heard of Jesus will remain permanently dead and will never be saved.”

    If Jesus is the only path to God, that doesn’t necessarily mean that to get to God everyone has to know about Jesus and have responded to him in a certain way. And we can see this clearly by considering the Jews. All christians would agree that heroes of the OT, such as Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, etc, are “saved”, yet none of them knew anything about Jesus as a person (though Isaiah foretold a few interesting things). This post outlines my view in more detail, but I don’t believe anyone will miss out because they haven’t had the opportunity to hear about Jesus.

    “I think that the Bible was written both in and for the times that the writers operated in. Trying to explain complex ideas beyond the educational levels at the time would have been counter productive. The writers had to keep it simple, but as mankind’s education has progressed we can pick out the logical holes and inconsistencies in the ancient texts and we need an update and clarification.”

    I agree with this, with a few provisos. I think we need to do such updating and clarification with the input of science, history, archaeology, etc, and avoid just making things up. And I believe we need to be seeking God’s wisdom, and not just choosing what we’d like or think to be true.

    “I may also add that if life has arisen on other planets (also part of God’s creation), they could never be saved either.”

    I don’t see why another planet is any different to another country. Jesus’ death could be sufficient for them. Or perhaps he visited them too. Who knows?

    “What are the mansions ? Other planets , other dimensions, other lives ? What does the church say ?”

    Well I don’t doubt the language here is somewhat metaphorical or analogical, but I think it means something real. Christianity teaches the resurrection of the body, not an immaterial souls living on, so I think the life to come will be in a quasi physical world. I think anything more than that is beyond our knowledge.

    “Also, what is the church’s view on intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe ? If this was found how would it affect Biblical teachings ?”

    I doubt there’s any definite christian view, but I think there is no problem either way – i.e. that we’re alone, or that there are many other life forms.

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  15. westofthebluemountains says:

    Hello again, I’m glad you enjoyed your holiday.

    “I agree with this, with a few provisos. I think we need to do such updating and clarification with the input of science, history, archaeology, etc, and avoid just making things up. And I believe we need to be seeking God’s wisdom, and not just choosing what we’d like or think to be true.”

    That’s true, although there will always be “theories” about anything that we don’t know for sure, theories that may seem crazy at the time that are later shown to be true.

    I’ll put my crazy hat on again and explore the theory of other dimensions.

    Scientists are now exploring this possibility.

    We can only see three dimensions, but I can’t see any reason why there should not be an infinite number. Mathematically it’s not a problem, we can have multi dimensional arrays in computing for example.

    If so, could God exist in all these dimensions ? I think it’s said in the Bible somewhere that God is infinite.

    There is also this

    Exodus 33:20 (KJB)

    And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

    Is that a clue that physical man cannot see God because we can only ever see three dimensions while he inhabits more ?

    I am not trying to attack the Bible, just trying to put a more modern interpretation on it that may come with more knowledge (or theories) about the universe that we have today.

    Yes you can say I’m trying to suit myself and I’m cherry picking pieces of it to fit my own theories. I probably am, but I believe that religion, if we choose to accept it (Mission Impossible theme) is a personal matter that we should decide for ourselves.

    Maybe the Bible contains hidden truths that we can only see now as we can look further with more advanced instrumentation. (Do you believe this or do you think that the Truth is as it was originally written ?).

    I am grateful for your views and will take them on board. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, just trying to make up my own !

    All the best.

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  16. unkleE says:

    Hi, thanks again. My apologies for your comments always requiring moderation. It’s set to only require moderation the first time, or if too many links (typical of spam) or if certain words used, but you don’t seem to fit any of those. I can’t figure out why.

    “I am not trying to attack the Bible, just trying to put a more modern interpretation on it that may come with more knowledge (or theories) about the universe that we have today.”

    I’m fine with that, as long as we start with the text in its historical context. I have no problems with your idea of multi-dimensions, though I think the truth is that God is outside this universe, i.e. outside time, space, energy and matter, but interacts with it.

    “Yes you can say I’m trying to suit myself and I’m cherry picking pieces of it to fit my own theories. I probably am, but I believe that religion, if we choose to accept it (Mission Impossible theme) is a personal matter that we should decide for ourselves.”

    We each have to decide for ourselves, but if we are talking about objective truth, then I believe starting from known information and thinking in logically supportable ways is the best way to go. If God is just an idea, then that is the objective truth, and we can each have whatever idea we want. But if God really exists, then that is the objective truth and we need to find out the truth about him/her/it.

    “Maybe the Bible contains hidden truths that we can only see now as we can look further with more advanced instrumentation. (Do you believe this or do you think that the Truth is as it was originally written ?).”

    Well there is the truth that the original writers knew, and the truth that God knew. I don’t think God dictated the scriptures, but I think he inspired the writers to write what they knew within their own cultural timeframe. So I think it is a bit of both of the options you suggest. So we start from what the writers were saying, and then we can build from that to what God may have been saying, or may be saying to us now.

    “I am grateful for your views and will take them on board. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, just trying to make up my own !”

    Thanks. I try not to be a forceful person about all this. I write my two websites to offer well-based factual information and personal ideas for anyone interested, and to interact with anyone interested. I appreciate your comments and interaction, and have never thought you were being forceful. This website is more aimed at christians. You may find my other website Is there a God? is of interest.

    Thanks.

    Like

  17. unkleE says:

    Yeah, sorry, there was a piece of wrong code. I used to have a forum attached to that website, but it got spammed, and I replaced it with a few comment pages I was able to protect against spam. But I missed changing the link on a number of pages. Should be OK now.

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